So let me get this right, and correct me if I am wrong. Lets say that Watchtower says that the kingdom hall at location X is no longer needed and that it should be sold. But that Watchtower says that the congregation members can decide what to do with the proceeds and the majority of the members decide to send the proceeds to Watchtower, you would have no problem with that right?
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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39
...It Belongs to the Society
by Lostandfound inway back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.
my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.
my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.
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39
...It Belongs to the Society
by Lostandfound inway back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.
my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.
my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.
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Richard Oliver
And here is another question. Lets say that Orphan Crow you and Outlaw are in the same congregation, and Outlaw has controlling interest of shares in the kingdom hall. And then lets say that he all of sudden hats Orphan Crow and says to everyone, you all either, you either Disfellowship him today and stop associating with him completely or I am going to sell the Kingdom Hall, because I don't like him. Would you think that is a good idea? -
39
...It Belongs to the Society
by Lostandfound inway back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.
my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.
my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.
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Richard Oliver
Orphan Crow:
Please give me your suggestions to what those bylaws should be.
How are shares to be determined?
What happens if someone moves?
Can someone sell their shares to someone else?
What happens if someone dies?
There are a ton of fine points that would make it impossible. Then all that happens is that instead of Watchtower using a religion for a business you have individual people who use a religion as a business. Can you have rich witnesses just buy up shares of multiple kingdom halls, and then when the market hits a peak they cash out and shut down a kingdom hall at their own will.
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39
...It Belongs to the Society
by Lostandfound inway back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.
my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.
my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.
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Richard Oliver
So outlaw my questions still stand. How do you decide who gets to decide, the people who are currently in the congregation or the people who were it when they built it? How do you decide, how much weight a person's vote counts to making that decision? Is it that the congregation should know how much each person gave to building it and then what, every dollar equals one share? So if one guy who gave 25,000 dollars decides to sell it and he has most of the shares it pretty much belongs to him right. Again if someone moves away should the congregation pay that person back? The way you make it sound like is so easy but these are just a small fraction of the complicated questions you would have to answer.
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39
...It Belongs to the Society
by Lostandfound inway back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.
my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.
my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.
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Richard Oliver
So Outlaw. If a kingdom hall is too small or no longer needed the property should just be kept there to make you happy.
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41
Numbers don't lie... and these numbers are beautiful!!
by ILoveTTATT2 inthe numbers don't lie... definitely slowing down!!.
in the 40´s the average growth per year was 20%in the 50´s it was about 10%they had four decades of solid 5% per yearnow the average for the past 16 years has been 2%.
maybe in the future it will be 1% or 0 or even negative????.
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Richard Oliver
How is my reasoning off? 250k increase would be a smaller percentage increase of 8Million than it would be of 7Million. That is a statistical fact. Is it good sense if you are talking about business? Absolutely not. But statistically it is a true thing.
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39
...It Belongs to the Society
by Lostandfound inway back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.
my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.
my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.
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Richard Oliver
So what is your solution? Should ever member who contributes to a Kingdom Hall receive a portion of the ownership of the kingdom hall? Should it be based on how much you gave? If you want to move to another hall, does your ownership stake stay at that hall or move with you to the new one? What happens when someone dies, who gets their stock? What happens if the person who contributed the most wants out of it, do they get to decide that the kingdom hall gets sold?
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41
Numbers don't lie... and these numbers are beautiful!!
by ILoveTTATT2 inthe numbers don't lie... definitely slowing down!!.
in the 40´s the average growth per year was 20%in the 50´s it was about 10%they had four decades of solid 5% per yearnow the average for the past 16 years has been 2%.
maybe in the future it will be 1% or 0 or even negative????.
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Richard Oliver
Like I said. I did not mean to say that Watchtower does not have a problem growing. My contention was, looking exclusively at the percentage of either increase or decrease does not provide the whole story and you cannot extrapolate conclusions exclusively on that number. Just like in business, a stockholders or analysts have to look at a whole set of numbers not just one in order to make an informed decision.
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More congregations? One of the strategies they used to inflate the numbers in my city.
by Tempest in a Teacup ini looked at the 2017 yearbook figures this morning, and it reminded me of something which happened in my former congregation 2 years ago.
it was a tiny foreign language congregation with at most 25-30 publishers.
comes and splits a 30 member congregation into....three.
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Richard Oliver
If a language group is associated with a congregation, they are not counted as two different congregations they are counted as one. The only time they start to be counted as two is when they form their own congregation, that means that all meetings are held on their own, with their own body of elders and their own service committee. Up until that point the host congregation is still responsible for the language group and they are still counted as part of that congregation.
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41
Numbers don't lie... and these numbers are beautiful!!
by ILoveTTATT2 inthe numbers don't lie... definitely slowing down!!.
in the 40´s the average growth per year was 20%in the 50´s it was about 10%they had four decades of solid 5% per yearnow the average for the past 16 years has been 2%.
maybe in the future it will be 1% or 0 or even negative????.
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Richard Oliver
You cannot just look at percentage as the only number you look at. Think about it this way, if you get a raise of $1 per hour each year. If you start at $15 dollars an hour the raise equals about 7% but the next year when you get the raise because the starting point is now $16 dollars an hour the increase is now less percentage wise it is now only 6%, then the next year the percentage increase is even lower is only 5% and so on and so on. So Yes in the 40s and 50s the percentage increase for Watchtower was greater because they had a smaller starting number, but as that starting number gets bigger, unless the amount of people you add gets bigger at the same rate the percentage is still the same.
I am not saying that Watchtower doesn't have a increase problem, but you cannot solely look at the percentage increase.